American Patriot says,

"And dont tell me immigrant Hispanics dont live in the same conditions and face the same daily discrimination as Blacks do."

I don't want to be an apologist or make excuses for anyone. I'll let them do that on their own. However, a few observations.

One of the strong characteristics of the hispanic migration, as with the European migrations before it is that it has a strong basing on family. The first folks come over, they get work and make better money than in the old country, they in turn bring in more family and relatives.

Contrast that to the black migration to the Americas. Against their will, loaded into the holds of ships in chains and sold into slavery. Families deliberatly broken up. Notice any difference?

After over 200 years of slavery and half a century of Jim Crow. Blacks were climbing out of poverty. They had strong family bonds. The divorce rates for blacks in the first half of the 20th century were lower than for whites. They began the civil rights movement, on their own. Then came the 60's, with the advent of identity politics and anger for its own sake with no objective end. Along with that came the war on poverty and the welfare programs that were not family friendly and that created an incentive to stay dependent and a culture of victimization. Moynihan pointed this out back then in a book (title escapes me)and was shouted down by all the social engineers.

My observation is that they have had more damage done to them by well intentioned government social welfare programs. The same ones, with the same social engineering that the left would like to inflict on you and me.

You can see this in Alaska in vilages in the bush. The influx of oil revenue money and the social welfare programs that came with them, however well intentioned have decimated much of native culture. It's done a better job than if we would have sent in the cavalry. It's not just some pathology peculiar to blacks. It's the promotion of the culture of victimization by these programs, however well intentioned, that have done far more harm than good.

The hispanics and the Europeans before them have been able to avoid this.

Middle-class hispanics have a tendency to ID themselves as white.

Lower-class hispanics ID themselves as black.

Read that earlier this year after the 04 elections about CA.

Just so long as they are Americans first and vote that way, I don't care.

I think I'm about the only non-politician conservative saying it, but we need to either build a fence along the entire Mexican border, or we need to let them ALL in.

Immigration never hurt this country in an irreparable way.

Personally, if those illegal immigrants are here for work and life, and the American way, then they should all be citizens.

The flow needs to be controlled for security reasons (bomb-carrying towel-heads), but I think that as many as want the better life here should be given the chance to do so.

I guess I'd never get elected.

Stephen,
I have no idea where previous commenter Sandy P got such a ridiculous thought.
AP is right on target, as Dr. Thomas Sowell has been informing us for, I'd guess, decades now.
For a shorter time frame, neo-con (and their Libertarian fellow travelers)deriding theo-con Orrin Judd has been a, relative to blogging, long term supporter of immigration, kind of the anti-Tancredo.
http://www.brothersjudd.com/blog/archives/2005/09/legalize_them.html
Mike

I think I'm about the only non-politician conservative saying it, but we need to either build a fence along the entire Mexican border, or we need to let them ALL in.

The Mexicans who come to the US are the ones who would be pushing for reform if they stayed in Mexico. By letting them come here, we let the Mexican government avoid reform and perpetuate the status quo in Mexico. This suits the elites in Mexico, they're not going to do a damn thing to stop illegals from coming north, not now, not ever.

If we want Mexico to become a 'normal' place, we have to make coming here less appealing than staying in Mexico and trying to fix the place. Unfortunately, I don't see a way to do that short of deploying the USMC on the southern border with orders to shoot on sight.

I wonder how what is described as our current immigration "crisis" compares to the Chinese/Irish/German/etc. immigration waves.

It seems to me that each wave brings on it's own sense that the new (and perhaps illegal) immigrants are destroying American life, culture, and jobs. It doesn't take long before the immigrants are integrated, and we're all better for it. [How many good Thai restaurants did we see 25 years ago?]

Re: Our open borders only delay any Mexican reform...

A couple of years ago, we replaced a bunch of flooring. In my very limited Spanish, and his equally limited English, I found out that one of the guys on his knees laying tile in my kitchen had been an attorney in Mexico. Granting that this is just one anecdote, and that there's much missing in this story, however, I'd say we're benefitting much more than Mexico for their failure to reform.