The thought that I keep having at the sight of the looters, especially those going after the non-essential items, is that they are merely distributing the detritous and increasing the likelihood of their own deaths.

There's no easy way out of the city without help, even more so with anything but your own person. The clothes and electronics being taken are likely being stored on the second floor of houses where the water is still rising. The people who've taken these things, like a child who's hand is stuck in a candy jar, will be unlikely to want to let them go. And yet, with the water rising, the bodies floating, and the fresh water supply shrinking, disease won't be long for many that stay.

Looting wasn't much of a problem after the San Francisco earthquake.

Might possibly have to do with the announcement that looters would be shot on sight, end of discussion.

Of course, we are so much more enlightened these days.

With a lot more looting.

I guess someone should blame Rumsfeld for the looting

Looters *should* be shot on sight. But if the National Guard or any military unit is called in, you have the awful situation of US troops firing upon US citizens. To say that would be bad is an understatement.

It would possibly be better to either organize the police or have the police deputize folks who can't get out of the city to patrol, a la Keith Williams, with the warning spread throughout the city that looter will be shot.

I wish I had a magical solution. I've never been to NO, I don't know anybody who lives there or near there, and yet I can't stop weeping for these people and their beautiful city.

the 82nd Airborne is merely waiting for the word

the problem will be in getting there

Has anyone ever been to New Orleans? The city is filled with scum, and for lack of a better term, freaks. This was entirely predictable.

Looting will be a sort of self-fixing problem in the long run. Really, what's going to happen?

1) The looters will try to evacuate with the rest. The authorities won't let them take more than a bag with them. Unless they hit a jewelry store (and even then -- could they break into the safe?), looting was for naught.

2) The looters will try to hide the loot before they evacuate. In a month, it'll all be ruined anyway, both for the looter and the rightful owner.

3) The looters will stay to protect their newfound stash. They will either get shot when the authorities forcibly try to remove them and get shot at, or they will die of disease, exposure and lack of food and water.

In the end, very few looters will get away with it.

I think Andrew is wrong...attitudes haven't changed all _that_ much since the fall of 1989. But, even discounting the cultural aspects (let's face it...on 9/11, who _wasn't_ saying, by mid-day, something like "if that were happening in Los Angeles, the whole city would be burning to cinders by now"?), there's the simple fact that there was no mass evacuation after the earthquake. Utilities went out, there was a lot of property damage, but you didn't have millions of people fleeing their homes and businesses en masse. Which of course reduced the opportunity for looting.

Katrina Video Wire
http://www.bareknucklepolitics.com/main.html

New Orleans has been the worst-governed major American city for many, many years now. It makes Chicago look like a paragon of clean government. When a pervasive atmosphere of lawless corruption is allowed to fester for years and years on end, this is the result when central authority is temporarily lost. Habits and social mores regulate human behavior more than statutes, and New Orleans, a city which I have enjoyed immensely, has had habitually destructive behavior woven into it's fabric for a long time.

Drudge has it that amphibians are on their way.

Another reason why every reasonable person should own firearms.

I had a friend who suffered through Andrew a few years back. He and his wife were life long lefties, totally anti-gun. About a week after the storm hit, he called me for advice on buying (and using) a gun.

The situation wasn’t nearly as bad then. But his family ended up living in a tent in their front yard for a few weeks. He had never been so scared. The National Guard patrolled his neighbor hood occasionally (once an hour or so), but the rest of the time, it was basically every man for himself. He said you couldn’t even consider firing up a generator unless you were prepared to sit by it with a gun.

His brother made a road trip to deliver supplies a few days later. In the mix was a $150 Mossberg 12 gauge pump, and a couple boxes of ammo. To this day, he keeps the gun in his bedroom, just in case.

Get a gun. Learn how to use it. Be prepared.

End of PSA.

I can understand hungry and thirsty people looting stores for food and water, but computers, TVs and jewelry? Totally disgusting.

Isn't it amazing that the US will rush to aid folks all over the world when disaster stikes, but when the US is hit...crickets chirping.

Drudge has it that amphibians are on their way.

Frogs? In a few weeks, the tree frogs will be deafening. I have no idea how this is supposed to be a good thing, though.

TO: WIll Collier
RE: Object Lessons

"Lock and load." -- Will Collier

But this goes against the grain of american politically-correct law enforcement thinking. Property is NOT worth killing, or even wounding, ANYONE.

In that case, this is the logical outcome. Any disaster where the police cannot be there to protect property becomes fair game to the one with the 'will' to take it. And the devil take those who would defend their property. Either him or the law, when they finally catch up with them.

This will only add to the insurance claims made. And the insurance companies are going to complain about it too. But I doubt if it will have any effect on PC thinking.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

Chuck.

They attacked a hospital. A Children's Hospital.

Regarding the siege of the hospital. Looks like the druggies are all starting to fiend for a high. Reminds me of that episode of OZ where the heroin supply was cut off. And I agree with everyoen here, lock and load and shoot on site.

TO: Will Collier
RE: That Too

"They attacked a hospital. A Children's Hospital." -- Will Collier

Yeah...I know.

Now THERE, the laws relating to the lawful use of deadly force could well come into play. Property...no. Life and limb of others...you betcha.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

Matt -

Sorry. I was speaking Calirfornian.
There is and was only one 'San Francisco Earthquake' - 1906.

That other one was just a jiggle.

Things have changed rather a lot since then.

TO: Will Collier
RE: I Am Reminded...

...., by these continued reports, of Niven & Pournelle's classic Lucifer's Hammer.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

Doesn’t this also kind of relate to the “martial law” declaration?

I thought that some of the civil laws that martial law over rode were related to use of force. I’m sure this is a murky area, but this seems like the ultimate “shoot first, ask questions later” environment.

TO: jmaster
RE: Martial Law?!??!!

"Doesn’t this also kind of relate to the “martial law” declaration?" -- jmaster

WHERE!!!!?!? WHERE!!!!!?!??!?!?!

There had been a report that martial law had been declared in NO. However, that was apparently not correct.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

P.S. But, I can see justification for declaring it. I just think the civil authorities don't want to admit to not being able to handle the situation.

Is there an election coming up for them?

Whether she admits it or not, Gov. Blanco was clearly unprepared for anything like this disaster, either intellectually or emotionally. She's been a complete flop thus far. Blanco was never anything but a machine politician to begin with, and "deer in the headlights" doesn't even begin to cover her current state.

The reports of declaration of Martial law were not correct?

But I read it on The Drudge Report! And I haven't seen a correction! That means it has to be true, right?

(sarcasm off)

My bad.....

There was actually a good point made on NPR this morning (waits for the shock to wear off). New Orleans/LA. politicians are voted in because they're colorful characters, not because they're able administrators.

TO: Will Collier
RE: Preaching to Da Choir

"Blanco was never anything but a machine politician to begin with, and "deer in the headlights" doesn't even begin to cover her current state." -- Will Collier

That's the MO of politics in Louisiana. SOP. Machine politics, color [as in characters] and hypocrisy. I know. I came of age there.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

As I understand it, LA doesn't have a "Martial Law" statute. What they've declared is "Emergency Law", which is, in effect, martial law without the name. Some how, martial law sounds a tad more serious.

KTLA (Tribune) in Los Angeles this morning ran tape of a news crew confronting a looter:

"If I wasn't s'posed to do this, the police would be here stopping me!"

You know, "no controlling legal authority."

Anyone stealing food or water from stores is just fine by my standards - it'll be ruined by the time anyone gets to it legitimately(hell, it's ruined now), so it might as well keep people alive in the meantime. Anyone taking the opportunity to steal anything that they don't need to keep themselves alive deserves to be floating head-down for the next few days(or weeks, if it takes longer than they think). In calmer times, I'd take them all in and toss them in jail for a while, but this isn't a situation with a functioning legal system, so treat it as a situation that needs to be dealt with by naked force. Shoot the fuckers - and that includes any cops who get in on looting too. It's less devastating than the alternatives.

I thought that some of the civil laws that martial law over rode were related to use of force. I’m sure this is a murky area, but this seems like the ultimate “shoot first, ask questions later” environment.

In the US, martial law basically means that habeas corpus- the right to a trial- is suspended, and that the military is authorized to do whatever is necessary to maintain order by whatever means are appropriate, usually because civilian law enforcement is unable to deal with the situation, and civilian courts are unable to function.

Martial law is ugly, and only used in dire circumstances... but this might qualify.

TO: rosignol
RE: Martial Law

"Martial law is ugly, and only used in dire circumstances... but this might qualify." -- rosignol

Only when the civil authorities admit that they cannot cope with a situation. I saw it exercised, once, in Idaho, as a solution to a simulated natural disaster (earthquake) with mass casualties.

The mayor and county commishs walked into an NG cav squadron commander's office and said they could not cope with the situation as described to them. The adjutant, a bright attorney in town told the commander, "We can declare martial law, if these gentlemen agree." They agreed.

However, as I understand it, state law has to allow for such. Idaho did, at that time. Louisiana, as I hear, does not, at this time. But you are right. From the looks of it, NO could certainly use something like this.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

I think New Orleans would be better off had the people of Louisiana elected Governor Jindal.