Oh you disappoint me Mr Green.

Country's going to the dogs...not like in my day...people knew their place...I'm one of London's elite...young people are ghastly.

You agree with this shit?

Pompous "celebrities" getting an audience whenever they mouth off, now that's a social problem that should make us fear for the future.

Hope you wake up feeling better.

While Joan's collumn smacks of elitism that approaches nearly intollerable proportions, she does have a point. I think the greater mark of the decline of England, and other western cultures has been the rise of the celebrity worship that has made Ms. Collins a very rich woman. In what decent society would anyone pay their hard earned money to see her films or read her books? The true moment when this all became clear, was the public despair over the tragic death of their nutcase princess a couple of years ago.

You gonna post photos of them flying monkeys? Warn us first, please.

Every. Single. Thing. she said about those durn london young 'uns has been true about New York for the last 200 years.

Joan Collins has been married 5 times, and the peak of her career came about when she starred in two movies called 'The Bitch' and 'The Stud', so she has no right to talk about Moral Decline in that haughty, superior tone she tried to do.

"The true moment when this all became clear, was the public despair over the tragic death of their nutcase princess a couple of years ago."

Pursuit -- I absolutely agree that the frenzy over Di's death was insane, but I feel compelled to point out that it was actually eight years ago. Not trying to pick nits; it's just that it's amazing how time has flown.

Yea well...at least it's not JACKIE Collins you agree with. She's a feckin' swine. Joan's just trying to make waves, now that she's in the twilight of her life.

I wasn't aware manners and decorum - dare I write civility - was for the elite class alone.

Denise,

Yah, its amazing how quickly time marches on. I was just sayin that that was when I noticed the lip wasn't quite so stiff anymore.

What Sandy P said.

I wasn't aware Joan Collins was all that up on flu vaccines.

Or do we have a busted link?

JD -- I read her biography. Joanie's probably a little current on antibiotics than vaccines, if you know what I mean...

Actually, Joan Collins has been an occasional contributor to the (London) Spectator over the years, and has taken a similar tone in her articles.

I can never say anything mean about Joan Collins, since I love her forever for her performance in City on the Edge of Forever.)

I'm sorry, I must not have made myself clear. The link that Stephen provides goes to drudgereport, but the article that link is attached to is entitled "'SHOT TO CURE FLU FOR LIFE'".

In it is no mention of Joan Collins.

Am I being dense? Or do I need to go procure a bottle of Ketel One?

That's because the link is to flash3 which is the current "flash" so the story will change frequently. The Joan Collins article is now here.

I'd still recommend procuring a bottle of Ketel One;)

What kind of people allow others to come into their homes and change what they call their country and themselves. It's not merry old English where the merry old English people live, it's the UK where the British people live.

Joan Collins may be a multi-married nouveau riche airhead, but Stephen's right, she's spot on the money in this piece.

No she is not. If you immigrate to the United kingdom of Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) and Northern Ireland and apply to become a citizen, of that Nation State, you will receive a certificate that qualifies you as British, regardless of which 'country' or province you live in. To become 'English' (Scottish or Welsh much less Irish of the northern variety) is understood more as an ethnic identity of which depending on your origin might take more than one generation and some interbreeding, whereas you can become legally 'British' within the space of a few years, depending.

keroshi, I believe you're making Collins case for her. She is English from England and wants to be able to say so, like the Welsh from Wales, or the Scots from Scotland.

Ok first of all let me clarify that my country of origin is New Zealand and I am largely of Welsh and Irish (British isles stock), 2 generations removed and that I now live in Britain and have naturalised as a British citizen, and have a certificate to prove that. I am also thereby a European Union citizen as is also indicated on the passport I now am entitled to. I like Wales and I go there to visit and feel at home when I go there, I see people who have my family resemblance, I am one quarter Welsh, as my grandmother was a Davies although born in Chester in Cheshire the English administrative point (pre devolution) of North Wales. I live in Birmingham in England but that will never make me 'English' although were I to marry and have children here and especially were my wife English then yes that would make my children English. Without a doubt. But were my wife an immigrant like myself no then my children would be harder pressed to consider themselves English, depending.

There seems to be two points that Collins is making. One is denial that there is literally or figuratively something called British. Two that it is a shame to call yourself English.

As I have now sought to clarify it is possible to be neither English, Welsh, Scottish or for that matter Northern Irish (much less Manx or Channel Islander) and still be British. This is a fact. And this is the part which she occludes (disincludes?) That there are immigrants from many nations in Britain today, both from the Commonwealth, the EU and anywhere else that people might be fleeing persecution and destitution, in search of a better life, one that Collins being from here was also able to do. This is the unmentionable racism by ommission part of her argument.

The second part is where as others have pointed out in part due to Collins' own insecurity of identity due to rapid upward economic mobility and public exposure in her own lifetime, she finds herself no longer able to identify with her own social group (which she subconsciously equates with English ie white upper working, lower middle class) while not finding her self completely comfortable in her newer role as transatlantic ingenue. With either or both of these points Collins will find herself in company with for example Morrisey on the one hand and the British National Party on the other.

You will have no problem identifying yourself as English, if you in fact are, and are also for example a football fan. After the bombing of the British Embassy in Turkey a man was shown with blood on his face, and unable to hear anything because of the blast he shouted out to the news reporter cameraman and therewith the world at large: 'I'm English' which nobody contested because by virtue of his accent but very definitely also his demeanour, he undoubtedly was.

If you are South Asian or Italian (or for that matter English) and you move to Wales and all of those groups are represented there, you don't automatically become Welsh. You may become British or already be British in the case of the South Asian, as an Italian you will not need to naturalise and can remain an Italian and as an Englishman you will be reminded daily that you are . Of this there is little doubt.