It's time for right thinking Germans to reacquaint their fellow voters about how it really was in those days bad old WW2 days.

It's better to let the leftists have their statue, so everyone can see what they really stand for. As it stands now, if you try to claim a left-wing group is pro-Lenin, people act like you're a McCarthyite.

The key is to remind people why Lenin was evil, not to prevent Leftists from showing their true colors.

Preventing it from going up would take some effort on the conservatives' part, and even if they win there's not much benefit.

If they let it go up, they win:
1) if the leftists leave it up, conservative Germans can shame them by pointing out their association with a mass murderer
2) if leftists take it down, it will be because moderate leftists break with the hard left, and this will increase discord among leftists.

Just think of the value such a statue would have for the CDU: they could mail out postcards with a photo of it every time they wanted to raise volunteers (or campaign contributions, if that's possible in that country).

If you were a leftist, you'd want George Bush to build a statue to Hitler, wouldn't you?

I'm surprised no one's yet come up with the idea of Lenin garden statues. A guy could get rich selling those.

I was going to say that for the Germans Soviet Communism was a giant step up but I will be nice and not say it. Oops, sorry.

Who knows? Maybe in a few years someone will reassemble Saddam Hussein's statue, too.

(One difficulty the builders would face, though, is I upholstered Saddam's outstreched hand and am using it as an office chair).

It's only a matter of time before we go back to war with those folks...

They'll have to use intimidation tactics like talking loudly to get the Lenin in the Fremont neighborhood of Seattle back.

This is especially nifty considering that they voted to find some way to condemn the private memorial at Checkpoint Charlie.

My wife and I were on a trip to Berlin and Poland in February of 2003, right before the Iraq war began, and got to observe an "anti-war" rally of about 500,000 people that marched right through the Brandenberg Gate on the Unter den Linden. What really struck me at the time was the large number of apparent communists in the crowd. How could I claim to know who in the crowd was a communist? Well, the large number of Che t-shirts was one clue, though that could have been just a fasion statement. More indicative than that were the people marching under the old flag of the Soviet Union and carrying red flags with Marx, Engels and Gorbachev on them (not to mention the Cuban flag, in a march to express opposition to a war in the Middle East !?). After awhile we walked about a half mile down the Friedrichstrasse to what was left of Checkpoint Charlie and the Berlin Wall. I wondered if any of the ernest young marchers up the street had ever been there and what they thought of how their city used to look. Did they even remember that a few short years before they wouldn't have even been able to march very far through the gate because the wall would have stopped them? Within a few days we were in Auschwitz and I couldn't help but remember all the posters people at the rally were carrying that portrayed Bush as Hitler. And yet it's Americans who supposedly know nothing of history. And now they want to dig up Lenin's head and put it back on display. I'd recommend placing it at the massive tribute memorial to the Red Army that sits in the Tiergarten to commorate the "liberation" of Berlin in 1945. Maybe some of them really do miss their jailers.

I think a lot of it is just attention seeking immaturity. Like Prince Harry of the UK dressing up as a Nazi - they are basically saying "Look at me, I'm being so edgy and cool and rebellious".

These men are a small minority of the leaders and they represent a small minority of the people. Just like the 5 Representatives out of 435 total who held a news conference to demand a Iraq pullout deadline a few months ago. MSM (both ours and Euro ) tend to have a strong Marxist bias and frame news accordingly.

David Kaspar likes to make mountains out of molehills, and he also doesn't always get the facts straight.

Btw,

the statue will be put up as an exhibit in a museum, not as a monument:

"The city government will now take up the issue and decide whom or which museum to turn to," the spokesman said. "Then they, together with museum experts, can decide how to deal with these parts of the memorial and where they can be stored or presented."

One of the possible future homes for the giant statue is the German Historic Museum in Berlin, which already owns several Lenin statues, one of which is more than 3 meters high.

Q. What's the German word for ingrate?

A. Berliner.

Leftists adore the worst humanity has to offer.

Every.
Damn.
time.

Well, they never purged the Communist after 1989 like they purged the Nazis after WW ll

Well, according to NPR, the Black Panthers now sell hot sauce.

Capitalism uber alles

I think the toppled Saddam Hussein statue should be reassembled too. If the Iraqis don't want it, Seattle has plenty of room next to their Lenin statue.

There is more of this Lenin worship going on than you think. See for example, the Red Square luxury apartment building in Manhattan at http://www.forgotten-ny.com/STREET%20SCENES/houston/houston.html Scroll down most of the page or put "Red Square" into page find.

@ralf..
yes, sometimes David does make a mountain out of a molehill..
but much of the time he is 'SPOT ON'.
Geez the Germans NEVER exaggerate the problems in America, now do they? Cowboy capitalism, locusts..

I am an ami who lives here in Germany..
and what I see here sometimes concerns me.
Witness.
the obsession with the American election in 2004
there was an election in Saxony awhile back.
over 30 percent of the voters voted for the successors of Hitler, Ulbrecht and Honecker.
(Ulbrecht and Honecker were communist leaders of East Germany for those not up on German history)
Compared with the uproar about the US election, this concerning result was/is hardly discussed.
I am talking both Mainstream Media and what I experience personally.

www.medienkritik.typepad.com

For those who want to stay current about our 'friendS' the Germans, that is the place.

Ralf, don't try to soft pedal what is going on over here in Germany. Americans need to know what is going on here so that they reevaluate the transatlantic relationship.

Well, this isn't Khmer Rouge kitchenware, but it's the next best thing.

North Korean kitchenware--coming to a store near you?

amiexpat,

point is, David Kaspar often exaggerates and sometimes distorts the facts. That is important information for those who rely on him. Blogs are supposed to be more objective and accurate than the mainstream media.

As to this:

For those who want to stay current about our 'friendS' the Germans, that is the place.

Ralf, don't try to soft pedal what is going on over here in Germany. Americans need to know what is going on here so that they reevaluate the transatlantic relationship.

It is true, David usually goes out of his way to make Germany look as bad as possible.

amiexpat, what would you think of an American who wrote this way about the United States?

And as I mentioned in the other thread, the Neo Nazis have gotten very little votes in former West Germany, unlike in the East.

Dallas (ggod old red white and blue Dallas) has got its own Soviet loving hipsters:

http://www.worldsbestbars.com/city/dallas/nikita-dallas.htm

Red star motiff included. Nothing tests my comittment to free-trade and liberal democracy like a hot twenty-five year old wasted on apple martinis. There's a burger joint just down the street with a Lenin statue (bought from somewhere east of the current in 93. It wasn't put up as a serious statement, but I don't think most people get the irony. After all, Soviets are so tre chic.

@Ralf, and as I said, all the rules are out the window..
we will see on Sep 18th, won't we?
I still wouldn't be shocked to see the NPD in the Bundestag. Likely? perhaps not... but it wouldn't be a shock either.

Some of what David writes can be harsh, but cmon..

I would agree that SOMETIMES David exaggerates and SOMETIMES he distorts the facts. But look
at the material he gets from the news and German politicians.

Comparing American firms to locusts?
Geez the Germans have really suffered under american imperialism haven't they?
For those who don't follow German politics, the head of the ruling party in Germany compared American
companies to locusts and a widely circulated union newsletter said the Germans were being sucked dry by American capitalists. Nazi imagery. do you deny these facts?

you said
Blogs are supposed to be more objective and accurate than the mainstream media.

where is that written? was that the 11th commandment? I would say it is SUPPOSED to be the other way around. when I read a blog, I know
that it is written from a given slant of one individual (sometimes several) and take it into account.
I EXPECT more from the MSM, unfortunately I don't get it.
Which is why I excuse David's occasional exaggerations, but I do not excuse the German mass media.
That is why blogs are so important.. to get the mass media to behave the way it is SUPPOSED to.

you said amiexpat, what would you think of an American who wrote this way about the United States?

that is why I despise Michael Moore,
but I don't put David Kaspar in the same category as the big fat man. Not even close.

David at least stays somewhat grounded in reality. Michael Moore is the son of Leni Riefenstahl
(american readers, Michael Moore is worshipped here in Germany)

I stand by my statement.. I am deeply concerned about German society. It is in a death spiral, literally and figuratively.
Americans need to know what is going on here so they can reevaluate their involvement with Germany.

@Ralf
http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog/2005/05/germanys_larges.html

did David 'exaggerate' this? did he make 'a mountain out of a molehill' on this?

Americans need to know how the people we stood by so loyally really think of us.

amiexpat,

largest trade union or not, they aren't representative of German society, rather they are typical of the traditional leftwing industrial workers. The unions also are hemorrhaging members, this ugly campaign is a desperate attempt to gold on to them.

And there also is no death spiral either, thnk you very much.

Ralf,
are you not aware of Germany's demographic crisis?
Are you not aware of the large population loss in East Germany?
I have been there and talked to people. There are cities that have lost a third of their population and will eventually become retirement communities.

Are you not aware that Germans are not having enough children to maintain the present population?in 2050 there could be only 50 million Germans. many of whom will not be ethnic Germans.
by that time there could be 500 million americans.

Germany is in a death spiral - whether you want to face it or not.

and given the treatment of Michale Moore in this country, no, this attitude (hard left wing anti Americanism) is NOT a minority - it is the majority.
I live here... remember? you
cannot put one over on me..

www.medienkritik.typepad.com

anyone who wants to know what is REALLY happening in Germany.
this is the place to go.

Americans need to evaluate there relationship with Germany.

Hmm, Lenin, Stalin, Mao garden gnomes...wotta concept. Gee every free-range mutt in the neighborhood would turn them into canine bulletin boards...

amiexpat,

yes, there are demographic problems, but they can be handled. Eastern Europe has an especially severe decline in birthrates, and Est German especially because so many young went westward. That's not representative of Germany as a whole. And don't forget, Span, Italy, Poland, the Czech Repeublic etc have even lower birthrates than we do. Are they in a death spiral, too?

I'm not trying to put one over you, I'm pointing out that the tarde3 uniuons aren't representative of Germany any more. And a leftwing attitude isn't the majority either. It may b seem to you becasue leftists tend to be particularily loudmouthed, though.

yes, to be honest, Italy is in a death spiral too..
no replacement birth rate..
it is a European problem, not just a German one.
Ralf, I am not anti German, it is just my take on things.
if anything I am pro German.
and you could be right, I do see the loud mouths..
they tend to be the ones who tell me the amis are prudes, have no culture, etc. etc..
It is a rare contact I have with a pro American.. I think I see you at Stefan Herres blog too right?`he is too pro Ami, but it is nice to hear for once

Ralf, I posted an article last night at DM - Americans are the happiest on earth, you guys are a bunch of sourpusses.

I'm surprised no one's yet come up with the idea of Lenin garden statues. A guy could get rich selling those.

Don't forget the hat, it'll sell big.

I'd buy a few to crush them w/hammers.

amiexpat,

Ralf, I am not anti German, it is just my take on things. if anything I am pro German.

Well, you made a pretty miffed impression, to say the least. ;)

Ok. I haven't heard of Herres' blog yet, but I'll take a look.

Sandy:

Americans are the happiest on earth, you guys are a bunch of sourpusses.

Hmpf!

well ralf after living in Germany seven years you start bitching like the natives..
will try to find the positive stuff and post it..

well ralf after living in Germany seven years you start bitching like the natives..

You are bitching with the best of us. :)

Pol Pot dinnerware?

That's not so bad.

Now, Idi Amin dinnerware...

That would be distasteful.

@Ralf

http://frum.nationalreview.com/archives/05082005.asp

here is a good article for you.. positive about Germany..
do I contradict myself.. Germany in a death spiral, and yet this article is so positive?
Perhaps..

But I feel there are serious problems in Germany that are not being addressed..
A Brit said to me five years ago( he has lived in Germany a long time)
'Germany is a country in decline'.
At that time I did not agree with him. But now I do.
To be honest this article hits the nail on the head..

Thanks for the article.

Well, yes, there are problems we haven't addressed yet, but we are starting to. Remember, the German economy is still in a much better shape than the British one was when Thatcher became Prime Minister.

We have some interest groups and politicians who support them which would like nothing better than a slow decline; they figured that they only would have to cater to the growing number of senior citizens and voters, and they would be in government for life - and to hell for the rest of Germany. Helmut Kohl's Labor Minister Norbert Blüm was the most notable example.

Luckily for us a slow decline isn't possible anymore, employers simply go abroad. So the heat was turned up too fast, and figuratively speaking, the frog is leaping out of the pot, instead of slowly. boiling to death.

But as I said, German industry is highly competitive: highly competitive

'Teutonic tiger' takes lead in trade By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard (Filed: 15/07/2005)

German firms are conquering the market for the machines that power world industry, racking up record sales of €98billion (£67billion) last year on the back of booming growth in Asia.

Germany's engineering federation in Frankfurt, VDMA, said the country's share of the €500billion global market for everything from laser systems to machine tools and polymer electronics rose to 19.3pc in 2004, compared with 5.2pc for France and 4.8pc for Britain.

Sales to China jumped 26pc on the year before, reaching €7.8billion.

Analysts say it is the latest evidence that Germany is emerging as lean and fit "Teutonic tiger" after a decade-long squeeze on wages and corporate costs, despite the continued slump at home and a raft of quality problems in the car industry.

The country is now the biggest exporter of merchandise of all kinds, ahead of the United States, China, and Japan, cornering 10pc of total world export market, according to the World Trade Organisation's 2005 report. While America registers higher overall trade, the bulk of that is imports.

The stellar performance of German exporters - many belonging to the Mittelstand network of medium-size family firms - belies the usual perception of Germany as a declining rust-bowl economy that has failed to adapt.

The trouble is that a lot of the workforce isn't as competitive, at least not at the current wages and general labor costs, that's why unemployment can only be lowered very gradually. But the fact remains that the problems can and will be solved.

The link above doesn't work, here is it again.

'Teutonic tiger' takes lead in trade

I hope you are right, I sometimes share your view, but living in Germany, one tends to become pessimistic by nature (I hear germans talking all the time about AMerican optimism).
You are right, things are being discussed and reforms have started.
but Ralf, the Word (or Unword) of the year 1997 was Reformstau..
that was 1997!!
Ralf, it took an act of God to allow the stores to remain open til 8 pm on Saturday.
I HOPE you are right.
But Germany is a conservative society ( I don't mean conservative politically). I mean they don't like change. To disdain change is human nature, but this quality is pronounced here in Germany. I certainly understand the historical reasons behind this, and if i was born and raised here I probably would feel the same way. But it is not corresponding to reality.
There are plenty of intelligentt motivated Eastern Europeans willing to work alot harder than the Germans (asparagus harvest, anyone)?

Oskar Lafontaine is basically saying.. we can all go back to the way things were.. and people are listening..

and Blüm is an idiot.. i read one of his recent columns.. what a jerk

I see it the other way around: Ten years ago it took the government's whole political energy to get longer shop-opening hours, now we are talking about much more far-reaching reforms, even if they don't go far enough yet, and the Social Democrats are for them, too, isntead of fighting them too and nail.

The asparagus thing isn't really significant; Americans don't want to do that kind of labor either. It only pays for the Polish seasonal laborers because they are put up for free on the farms during the harvest.