VodkapunditVodkapunditVodkapundit
Required Reading
Posted by Stephen Green  ·  11 December 2003

Tom Friedman has some hearty food for thought today.

I've read the thing twice, and I'm still not certain how to approach his argument -- so I'd appreciate it if you'd read it yourself, then click on the Drinks and let me know what you think.

Thanks.

Comments

It looks like the Law of Unintended Consequences has raised its head.

A problem with Israel unilaterally leaving the occupied territories is that Hamas and Islamic Jihad may see that as a sign of weakness (like when Israel left Lebanon). That may embolden them to continue their war while being safe in a Palestine that has never been serious in stopping these terrorists.

Posted by: Sean Hackbarth at December 11, 2003 01:27 AM

Letting your readers tell you what to think? Hmmm. . . .I think you're trying to give Friedman a thumbs up for poking the eye of the Israeli right, but don't want to bring down LGF wrath upon your head. . .

Posted by: ben at December 11, 2003 03:05 AM

I think I'll go back to my 1 year old vow to never read Tom's colums again.

Posted by: marek at December 11, 2003 04:50 AM

Retreat as a "sign of weakness":

I found this interpretation always astonishing. You don't want to appear weak, so you stay where you are. Is this one of the big and important principles of war taught to future generals at military academies? (Don't move, whatever! If you have to move, move forward! If you move, don't care about whether there is anybody behind you supporting what you're doing!)

The fact is, the border with Lebanon has been quite calm compared with the 'Palestinian border'. Looking at any statistic of Hizbollah attacks and Israeli casualties should make that clear.

Posted by: The Old European at December 11, 2003 05:25 AM

Tom Friedman is the Idiot Savant of our Newspaper of Record. Idiot, because he gets stupid every time he writes about Israel, Savant, because through sheer force he was able to convince everybody that he knows something we don't. This particular column illustrates this theory well. No threat from the East? Hmm...And what about Iran? Oh I forgot, this is just the Israeli "right wing" thinking. Thank for enlightening us O Wise One.

By the way Old European, the Lebanese border is not as calm as you think, but even if it was, the withdrawal was interpreted by the Arab world not as a small tactical withdrawal but as some sort of mythical, strategic victory. The Palestinian strategy since then is to try to imitatate the Hezbollah model.

Posted by: The Elder of Zion at December 11, 2003 06:18 AM

Marek,

Good idea. One of the best things I ever did was delete my cookies to the Times website. Now every time I'm tempted to poison my mind with their drivel I get the unfriendly registration page. Darn.

I've never felt more well-informed in my life.

Posted by: Mike M at December 11, 2003 06:54 AM

What about the Syrian army?

Posted by: Jim at December 11, 2003 07:02 AM

What about the Syrian MERCENARIES?

I've been reviewing news stories of the summer about the march to Baghdad in April. One striking feature of many separate accounts by the embedded reporters is engagements with troops clearly known to be SYRIAN. Troops bought and paid for to come fight the Americans.

The Axis-of-Just-As-Evil is real. As I begin to hope for "soft power" propaganda and diplomatic forces to induce regime change in Iran, I begin too to consider the advantages to the free world of promoting Syria to the top of the target list.

But that, for another day.

Regarding Friedman, (meanwhile back at the Resturant, remember Alice? ...)
I'm almost offended by the comparison of the heroic U.S. military to Madman Jack Nicholson in "The Shining". Almost. But, again, reading the accounts of the battles of last April, (most recently, the "Thunder Run" story by David Zucchino in the LA Times) there is a justification for it. Though not one Friedman might make.

It's apparent from the record that the American Military is fu*king INSANE. They have perfectly good battle plans all worked out and then THEY IGNORE THEIR OWN PLANS!!! They even ignore their own DOCTRINE about how to develop NEW plans. Captains and Lt. Colonels go haring off with makeshift companies of put-together platoons, and take positions, and then LIE to their generals about whether or not they need reinforcements. Then the general get on civilian cell phones and leapfrog the chain-of-command to talk to sergeants-major and get advice, and then the danmed GENERAL issues orders based on the impressions of these enlisted goobers. Orders which, by the way, a Captain argues with and disregards so as to do something ELSE!!!

And it all works. How crazy is that?


Posted by: Pouncer at December 11, 2003 08:11 AM

To the Elder of Zion

"the withdrawal was interpreted by the Arab world not as a small tactical withdrawal but as some sort of mythical, strategic victory. The Palestinian strategy since then is to try to imitatate the Hezbollah model."

And what do you care about whether the Arab world thought it was a mythical victory? Because it hurts your pride?

In which ways would Israel have been better off if they had not retreated from Southern Lebanon compared to what they have now?

Posted by: The Old European at December 11, 2003 08:12 AM

To The Old European

It has nothing to do with pride but everyting to do with the Arab view of this conflict. The Arab idea that Israel has been thoroughly defeated by a rag-tag group of terrorists has became a part of Arab mythology and is currently distorting their thinking. (By the way, not only about the Israeli Palestinian conflict but also about Iraq) It creates maximalist and un-realistic demands and destroys any attempt at compromise. The abandonment of Lebanese allies did not do us any good either. It made Barak look week and undecisive and succeptible to blackmail by Arafat. By their own addmission, the Palestinians decided to emulate the Hizbollah model.

No, I am not saying that the withdrawal was not the right option, but only that it should have been made after a complete destruction of Hizbollah. And yes, it was possible at the time, but Barak had no stomach for it. He was too influenced by his coalition partners from Meretz and too busy trying to keep at bay his competitors for the leadership of Labor.

Posted by: Elder of Zion at December 11, 2003 10:10 AM

This should be looked at this from a long term point of view. Isreal's long term goal is survival. Everyone commenting above seems to be thinking short term. A loss in the current battle, may be the only thing that lets them survive the long term war.

Isreal cannot change the demographic facts. Soon Jews will be the ruling minority in area formed by Isreal, Gaza and the West Bank. When that happens they will eventually loose support of the United States. The U.S. cannot back a minority ruled government (any more). Especially when democracy in the Arab world is our only hope to combat Islamic facism. What tactics will Isreal have to employ to impose their rule on the majority? What happens when a Palestinian leader finally wises up and emulates Ghandi or MLK Jr? Isreal will loose. It's a foregone conclusion.

Isreal has no need to worry about invasion from its neighbors. Jordan, Syria, and Eygpt learned their lesson and are not a credible threat. Iran cannot threaten them overland from that distance. Yes, Syria, a new Palestinian state and others will continue to back the terrorists if Isreal pulls back, but at least in pulling back from the occupied lands, they seize the moral high ground. From that high ground, they can combat terrorism with jets and bombs instead of bulldozers.

It is the only long term way to maintain a Jewish state.

Posted by: steve at December 11, 2003 12:48 PM

Ah, so Uncle Sam is the crazed, ghost-demented Jack Nicholson of the world, axing down another door of the Overlook Hotel of the world in an attempt to kill the fearful, confused housewife Saddam Hussein.

Did I capture the moment? Did I?

We're not gonna hurt you, Saddam. We just wanna BASH YOUR F***ING HEAD IN!

Posted by: Slartibartfast at December 11, 2003 12:52 PM



Navigation

MDS - Give Until It Hurts

Terror War Scorecard
Watching America

50 Things
American Cancer Ablation Center
Buy VodkaPundit Stuff



VodkaPundit on Amazon
Vodkapundit for PDA (AvantGo)
Vodkapundit for PDA (Not)
VodkaPundit XML or RDF

Search



Advanced Search



Last Call

The Author

"You rock"
-Glenn Reynolds

Absolut Link

Blog-Iran

Top Shelf

Ann Althouse
Baldilocks
Austin Bay
Belmont Club
Tim Blair
Chequer Board
Command Post
Counterterrorism Blog
Day By Day
Daniel Drezner
From the Bleachers
Hit & Run
INDC Journal
Iraq the Model
James Joyner
James Lileks
Megan McArdle
OPFOR
Protein Wisdom
Glenn Reynolds
Bill Roggio
ScreedBlog
Roger L. Simon
Rob Smith
Steven Taylor
Venomous Kate
Matt Welch
Winds of Change
Michael Yon
Yuppies of Zion


The Usual

Across the Atlantic
Anticipatory Retaliation
Atlas Shrugs
The Black Republican
Blogcritics
Captain's Quarters
Phil Carter
The Daily Ablution
Andrew Ian Dodge
Eye on the Left
Mike Hendrix
In From the Cold
Charles Johnson
Kathy Kinsley
A Likely Story
Brian Linse
Jay Manifold
Neocon News
Frank Martin
QandO
Bill Quick
Rantburg
John Scalzi
Sine Qua Non Pundit
Team Stryker
Mac Thomason
Michael Totten
Jesse Walker
Dr. Weevil
Bill Whittle
Chief Wiggles
Sissy Willis
Cathy Young

Micro Brews

American Realpolitik
Black Five
Boots and Sabers
Capitalist Lion
Scott Chaffin
John Cole
Coming Anarchy
Bo Cowgill
Dr. Frank's Blogs of War
Donklephant
Ed Driscoll
Kim du Toit
Glenn Frazier
Joe Gandleman
The Gay Patriot
Godless Capitalist
Bill Hobbs
John Hudock
Frank J.'s IMAO
Joanne Jacobs
Brothers Judd
Junk Yard Blog
Major John
Davids Medienkritik
Mr. Misha's Rottweiler
Only Baseball Matters
Matt Moore
Jack O'Toole
Peaktalk
Eric S. Raymond
Red Sugar
Resurrection Song
Robin Roberts
Andrea See
Mathew Sheren
Spoons Experience
DC Thornton
Yankee Station

Gin & Tonic

Albion's Seedlings
American Digest
Radley Balko
Paul Berger
Robert Bidinotto
Blogometer
BusinessPundit
The Chicago Boyz
Classical Values
Conrad the Expat
Susanna Cornett
Dave Cullen
England's Sword
Dean Esmay
Horsefeathers
Jessica's Well
Alex Knapp
Legal Spin
Light of Reason
The Lipstick Republican
Moxie
OxBlog
Suman Palit
Punch the Bag
The Pursuit of Happiness
Samizdata
Sofia Sideshow
Natalie Solent
Texas Best Grok
Professor Michael Tinkler
Cal Ulmann
Brothers Volokh

Cosmopolitans

Justene Adamec
Stephen Bainbridge
La Shawn Barber
Moira Breen
Sasha Castel
Colorado Psycho
Clayton Cramer
CrossingWallStreet
Martin Devon
Kevin Drum
Henry Hanks
Diana Hsieh
Jeff Jarvis
Jessica
Sean Kirby
Liberty Belles
Rachel Lucas
Jeralyn Merritt
Philip Murphy
Oasis of Sanity
Andrew Olmsted
Walter Olson
Michael Parker
Popped Culture
Porphyrogenitus
Fritz Schrank
Donald Sensing
Elizabeth Spiers
The Swanky Conservative
Two Blowhards
Michael Ubaldi
Alexandra von Maltzan
Will Wilkinson

Rum & Coke

The Argument Clinic
Below the Beltway
The Bitch Girls
Jay Caruso
Dog's Life
Fire On The Mountain
GeckoBlue
GZ Expat
David Hogberg
John Hawkins
Horologium
Kris Lofgren
Floyd McWilliams
John Moore
PhotoDude
Robyn Pollman
Chas Rich
Silflay Hraka
Geitner Simmons
Skippy
Dave Tepper
Transterrestrial Musings
Trying to Grok
Walter in Denver
Don Watkins
Weekend Pundit
Joshua Zader

Tequila Shots

Todd A
N.Z. Bear
Begging to Differ
David MSC
Gary Farber
Highered Intelligence
Isntapundit
Jonathan and Wanda
Ken Layne
Nick Marsala
Dan Michalski
Sheila O'Malley
Dawn Olsen
Tony Pierce
Raving Atheist
Matt Traylor
Sekimori
WMET Blog
World Wide Rant

Manischewitz

Moe Freedman
Tal G. in Jerusalem
IsraPundit
Kesher Talk
Mike Silverman
Allison Kaplan Sommer
Meryl Yourish

Boozehounds

Allah Is In the House
Dave Barry's Blog
The Daily Sedative
Doug Dever
Daniel Frank
Scott Ott
Large American Penis
Short Strange Trip
Ten Fingers, Six Strings
Jim Treacher

Cyanide-Laced Kool-Aid

Laurence Simon

Sex on the Beach

Body in Mind
ErosBlog
Eroticalee
Just One Bite
Fred Lapides
New York Hotties
SLA
Unablogger

Kegger

Ben Domenech
HokiePundit
Hoosier Review
John Tabin
Nicholas West

Fosters

Duck Season
Mike Jericho
John Ray
Bernard Slattery
Whacking Day

Molson

Banana Counting Monkey
Daimnation!
Dispatches
David Janes
Western Standard

Left Wing Bar Nuts

Ted Barlow
Joshua Marshall
Dan Perkins

Cover Charge

Eric Alterman
Dave Barry
Barone Blog
Austin Bay
Jay Bryant
C-Log
Campaign Desk
Steve Chapman
Dallas News Blog
Matt Drudge
Google News
Nat Henthoff
Hugh Hewitt
Mickey Kaus
Howard Kurtz
National Review Online
The New Republic
The New York Times
Newsweek
OpinionJournal
Kathleen Parker
Daniel Pipes
Virginia Postrel
Roll Call
Larry Sabato
Linda Seebach
Slate
Sploid
Mark Steyn
StrategyPage
Andrew Sullivan
Tapped
Tech Central Station
Time
US News & World Report
David Warren
The Washington Post

Under the Table

American Times
Angry Left
Asparagirl
BitchPundit
John Braue
Shiloh Bucher
Carthaginian Peace
Lorenzo Cortes
Steven Den Beste
Fevered Rants
Scott "Funkadelic" Ganz
Juan Gato
Happy Fun Pundit
Andrea Harris
Scott Koenig
Brink Lindsey
Sue Lizano
Kieran Lyons
Mean Mr. Mustard
Meeshness
Punditwatch
Dennis Rogers
Jim Ryan
Spinsanity
Unremitting Verse
Norah Vincent
Tony Woodlief

Archives

Powered by Movable TypeDesign by Sekimori